Help with game mechanics - Guild Wars Forums

Zguba · May 09, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

hey all, im trying a build with 3 monk heroes with these skills each:

dunkoro: balth spirit, protective bond, life bond
tahlkora: balth spirit, protective bond, life bond
ogden stonehealer: balth spirit, protective bond, life bond, life barrier

i have 55hp so i should take 2 dmg with protective bond, 1dmg from protective bond+life barrier, 0dmg from protective bond+life barrier+life bond. the order i cast the skills is: i make heroes cast balth spirit on themselves, then all cast protective bond on me, ogden uses life barrier on me, then all heroes use life bond on me. at first it seems to work i take 0dmg from attacks but then i die when heroes run out of energy. i read on wiki that if 3 heroes mantain protective bond with 13protection prayers it will split energy loss between them so they ll loose 1 energy each, since they are all enchanted with balth spirit and mantain life bond on me they should get 1 energy back each time in hit so they wouldnt run out of energy. (on wiki says balth spirit gives energy back even if taking 0dmg from protective bond).
so my question is what am i doing wrong?

BrettM · May 09, 2010, 05:09 PM // 17:09

The heroes are not being hit -- you are. Balthazar's Spirit gives energy to the party that is taking damage, even if that damage is reduced to zero or redirected elsewhere.

Zguba · May 09, 2010, 05:11 PM // 17:11

well ofc im being hit but my heroes mantain life bond on me so whenever i get hit the hero should get 0dmg back

MisterB · May 09, 2010, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Life Bond only works on attacks. So if you take damage from anything else, Protective Bond will drain their energy without any gain from Balthazar's Spirit. You may need to include additional energy management on the heroes.

Psirdark · May 09, 2010, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Maybe try essence bond . . .

Zguba · May 09, 2010, 05:57 PM // 17:57

@Psirdark essence bond doesnt trigger on 0dmg :/
@MisterB tnx for explanation

MisterB · May 09, 2010, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psirdark

Maybe try essence bond . . .

No. Essence Bond will not result in energy gain from zero damage.

Try Blessed Signet on the bonders, at a minimum. Just put more energy management on their bar. Blood is Power or Blood Ritual with self heals or heal ally skills, etc.

Zguba · May 09, 2010, 06:22 PM // 18:22

well im trying to find out a build to farm vaettirs for my survivor rit (prolly kills with dwg) so dont think more emanagement will do any good against 30vaettirs spamming spells :/

Dzjudz · May 09, 2010, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Try 105 armor with health regeneration. This is the basis of the ATFH hero bonder build (check bottom 3 bonder builds). This way you get 1 dmg so the heroes get energy from essence bond, but you can take many many hits that you counter with health regeneration (10 hp regen = 20 hp per second, so you can take 20 1hp hits per second and still not die). That bonder build works with any player build.

Spiritz · May 09, 2010, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zguba

i make heroes cast balth spirit on themselves,

Thats the energy problem there which was pointed out but from your replies i think you miss what is meant.
The bond has to be cast on the "person" taking damage - in this istance you are acting as the tank so it should be cast on you not the heros and you will gain 1 energy per hit.Downside from your build is all 3heros cast it on you but only 1 bond is used and the other 2 are wasted.
Essence bond may work ( not sure tho ) for heros to get energy - i know ive used a 55 build for fahranur hm which uses both essence bond an bal spirit.

Dzjudz · May 09, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

Thats the energy problem there which was pointed out but from your replies i think you miss what is meant.
The bond has to be cast on the "person" taking damage - in this istance you are acting as the tank so it should be cast on you not the heros and you will gain 1 energy per hit.Downside from your build is all 3heros cast it on you but only 1 bond is used and the other 2 are wasted.

Not really. Life Bond redirects damage to the heroes, who then gain energy from Balthazar's Spirit on themselves. The problem is that Life Bond only redirects attack damage, not other damage sources like spell damage. The only way to fix this is to raise your HP so you still get 1 dmg despite all the bonds and then make the heroes cast essence bond on you. Then you can remove balthazar's spirit from their bars. The bars would look something like:

You: 105hp armor so you take 1 dmg. Consider going /D for Mystic Regeneration, amazing with all the bonds on you.
Hero 1: Essence Bond, Protective Bond, Life Barrier, Life Bond, Blessed Signet, [Optional], [Optional], [Optional]
Hero 2: Essence Bond, Protective Bond, Mending, Watchful Spirit, Blessed Signet, [Optional], [Optional], [Optional]
Hero 3: Essence Bond, Protective Bond, [Optional bond], [Optional bond], Blessed Signet, [Optional], [Optional], [Optional]

Mending and Watchful Spirit should counteract the 1dmg packets you get. You can add more regeneration on your own bar if you need it.

Spiritz · May 10, 2010, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Dzjudz - op has 2 problems - he cant go /d as hes using 55 rt and 2ndly how is he going to get past the vaetires -10 degen , infact they use 3 skills that are major worry , accumulated pain + conjure phantasm and images of remorse.
I know an alliance guildie was messing with a way for a rit to farm vaetires but he had major probs - degen was the main along with actually killing them due to their high armor and they also have healing.He managed a build with 1 bonder but wasnt worth it in the end as there wasnt a way to deal enough damage quick enough to kill them.

Dzjudz · May 10, 2010, 11:16 AM // 11:16

(OP, correct me if I'm wrong) Spiritz, I don't think the OP is using a classic 55hp build in the sense that he has protective spirit and healing breeze. I think he just has 55hp in order for his bonds to work (which should be raised to 105hp for my suggested builds to work). This means his build is wide open. And why shouldn't it be? If you use the hero builds I posted, you can run pretty much anything yourself and still be invincible. In areas with multiple degen, I do recommend Mystic Regeneration.

Spectral Vaettir only cause 9 health degeneration in HM (5 from conjure phantasm, 4 from images of remorse). At 8 earth prayers, mystic regeneration gives 3 health regeneration for each enchantment on you for a maximum of 8 enchantments. In our case of many maintained enchantments, this means 24 health regeneration from mystic regeneration alone. This counters the Spectral Vaettir more than needed, still leaving you with 10 health regeneration and some to spare.

Arf, problem with this build is that the initial damage packets from accumulated pain are untyped and do not trigger essence bond. This makes the heroes run out of energy and end protective bond.

Zguba · May 10, 2010, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

(OP, correct me if I'm wrong) Spiritz, I don't think the OP is using a classic 55hp build in the sense that he has protective spirit and healing breeze. I think he just has 55hp in order for his bonds to work (which should be raised to 105hp for my suggested builds to work). This means his build is wide open. And why shouldn't it be? If you use the hero builds I posted, you can run pretty much anything yourself and still be invincible. In areas with multiple degen, I do recommend Mystic Regeneration.

Spectral Vaettir only cause 9 health degeneration in HM (5 from conjure phantasm, 4 from images of remorse). At 8 earth prayers, mystic regeneration gives 3 health regeneration for each enchantment on you for a maximum of 8 enchantments. In our case of many maintained enchantments, this means 24 health regeneration from mystic regeneration alone. This counters the Spectral Vaettir more than needed, still leaving you with 10 health regeneration and some to spare.

Arf, problem with this build is that the initial damage packets from accumulated pain are untyped and do not trigger essence bond. This makes the heroes run out of energy and end protective bond.

the idea was to make a build where you would survive even if you went afk (dc) so with 55hp, bonds and only melee dmg you would be invincible (you would take 0dmg and have +7 regen (+4 mending, +1 succor and +2 watchful spirit) so even if you would dc you would still be alive. think ill have to find different mobs to farm for my survivor, so if its not too much to ask does anyone know of an area with a lot of melee only mobs who can cause a max of -7degen?

Dzjudz · May 10, 2010, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Mountain Trolls outside Droknar's Forge?

Zguba · May 10, 2010, 04:41 PM // 16:41

will try there

May 09, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45	#1
Zguba Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2009	Help with game mechanics hey all, im trying a build with 3 monk heroes with these skills each: dunkoro: balth spirit, protective bond, life bond tahlkora: balth spirit, protective bond, life bond ogden stonehealer: balth spirit, protective bond, life bond, life barrier i have 55hp so i should take 2 dmg with protective bond, 1dmg from protective bond+life barrier, 0dmg from protective bond+life barrier+life bond. the order i cast the skills is: i make heroes cast balth spirit on themselves, then all cast protective bond on me, ogden uses life barrier on me, then all heroes use life bond on me. at first it seems to work i take 0dmg from attacks but then i die when heroes run out of energy. i read on wiki that if 3 heroes mantain protective bond with 13protection prayers it will split energy loss between them so they ll loose 1 energy each, since they are all enchanted with balth spirit and mantain life bond on me they should get 1 energy back each time in hit so they wouldnt run out of energy. (on wiki says balth spirit gives energy back even if taking 0dmg from protective bond). so my question is what am i doing wrong?

May 10, 2010, 11:16 AM // 11:16	#13
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	(OP, correct me if I'm wrong) Spiritz, I don't think the OP is using a classic 55hp build in the sense that he has protective spirit and healing breeze. I think he just has 55hp in order for his bonds to work (which should be raised to 105hp for my suggested builds to work). This means his build is wide open. And why shouldn't it be? If you use the hero builds I posted, you can run pretty much anything yourself and still be invincible. In areas with multiple degen, I do recommend Mystic Regeneration. Spectral Vaettir only cause 9 health degeneration in HM (5 from conjure phantasm, 4 from images of remorse). At 8 earth prayers, mystic regeneration gives 3 health regeneration for each enchantment on you for a maximum of 8 enchantments. In our case of many maintained enchantments, this means 24 health regeneration from mystic regeneration alone. This counters the Spectral Vaettir more than needed, still leaving you with 10 health regeneration and some to spare. Arf, problem with this build is that the initial damage packets from accumulated pain are untyped and do not trigger essence bond. This makes the heroes run out of energy and end protective bond. Last edited by Dzjudz; May 10, 2010 at 11:55 AM // 11:55..

May 09, 2010, 05:09 PM // 17:09	#2
BrettM Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2008 Guild: Fuzzy Physics Institute Profession: E/	The heroes are not being hit -- you are. Balthazar's Spirit gives energy to the party that is taking damage, even if that damage is reduced to zero or redirected elsewhere.

May 09, 2010, 05:11 PM // 17:11	#3
Zguba Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2009	well ofc im being hit but my heroes mantain life bond on me so whenever i get hit the hero should get 0dmg back

May 09, 2010, 05:35 PM // 17:35	#4
MisterB Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy Guild: [ban] Profession: W/	Life Bond only works on attacks. So if you take damage from anything else, Protective Bond will drain their energy without any gain from Balthazar's Spirit. You may need to include additional energy management on the heroes.

May 09, 2010, 05:43 PM // 17:43	#5
Psirdark Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Texas Profession: P/	Maybe try essence bond . . .

May 09, 2010, 05:57 PM // 17:57	#6
Zguba Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2009	@Psirdark essence bond doesnt trigger on 0dmg :/ @MisterB tnx for explanation

May 09, 2010, 06:22 PM // 18:22	#8
Zguba Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2009	well im trying to find out a build to farm vaettirs for my survivor rit (prolly kills with dwg) so dont think more emanagement will do any good against 30vaettirs spamming spells :/

May 09, 2010, 07:26 PM // 19:26	#9
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	Try 105 armor with health regeneration. This is the basis of the ATFH hero bonder build (check bottom 3 bonder builds). This way you get 1 dmg so the heroes get energy from essence bond, but you can take many many hits that you counter with health regeneration (10 hp regen = 20 hp per second, so you can take 20 1hp hits per second and still not die). That bonder build works with any player build.

May 10, 2010, 06:47 AM // 06:47	#12
Spiritz Forge Runner Join Date: Apr 2007 Guild: DMFC	Dzjudz - op has 2 problems - he cant go /d as hes using 55 rt and 2ndly how is he going to get past the vaetires -10 degen , infact they use 3 skills that are major worry , accumulated pain + conjure phantasm and images of remorse. I know an alliance guildie was messing with a way for a rit to farm vaetires but he had major probs - degen was the main along with actually killing them due to their high armor and they also have healing.He managed a build with 1 bonder but wasnt worth it in the end as there wasnt a way to deal enough damage quick enough to kill them.

May 10, 2010, 03:24 PM // 15:24	#15
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	Mountain Trolls outside Droknar's Forge?

May 10, 2010, 04:41 PM // 16:41	#16
Zguba Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2009	will try there